Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Blue Vineyard podcast. My name is Luke. And I believe the second time on the show, I have Khan with me, Khan Elmers.

Welcome to the show, Khan. Hey, good to be here. Yeah, it's great. So Khan is a team member in Blue Vineyard.

So we've been working together for a while now. But Khan, can you give yourself a bit of an intro, tell people a little bit about you? Yeah, I'd love to. My name is Khan and I grew up in New Zealand.

I'm currently living in Malaysia with my lovely wife. We live in Kuala Lumpur, the capital. I am a podcast producer, part-time English teacher, and really enjoy the challenge of working with the dynamic team at Blue Vineyard. And we are creating podcasts for Passion of Mine, which is the Adventist Church, of course.

I love having conversations with people, especially. That's why I'm really glad to be on this podcast. Thanks for inviting me, Luke. Yeah.

No, that's, that's great. Um, and, uh, maybe just to, for people to sort of get into the picture of what we're talking about today. Um, can you just start by exploring or explaining, like, where did this idea come from? Cause you suggested the topic idea for today.

And so let's start with it. So the topic idea came from, actually, it goes back to last year, the beginning of last year, when I had been, um, doing a bit of thinking about top podcasts. in the Adventist Church. So that's really where it came from. And I created an article about the top podcasts in 2025 to look out for.

I think you can Google that if you want in 2025. And so it's actually at that point that I had started to find like data on Adventist podcasts. And I was just curious to see what was out there and to see the, I guess, the ecosystem in the Adventist Church. So that's what kind of birth this topic that we're talking about today is, um, like topics for the local church.

I mean, like podcast formats for the local church. Yeah. I think it's, it's interesting because, uh, like podcasting has been something that's always been interesting to me. And I, when, when I started my first podcast, it was at a time where there were very, very few Adventist podcasts out there, right?

It was, uh, it was pre COVID it was, you know, everyone was getting onto the podcast thing, but there just weren't that many Adventist podcasts. There was, you know, the Adventist history podcast was running, you know, Pastor Matt Lucio was doing his thing. Ryan Becker was running his podcasts, but there really wasn't much else going on in the realm of Adventist podcasts. And then there was this explosion, right?

Like there was just like so many that all came up. And at some point, like I was originally tracking everything. But at some point they just got to be too many and I stopped really paying attention to what was out there because there was just so many of them. But, um, so I'm, I am curious, you know, as you said, you've been doing some, some research, uh, maybe if you could share some of those key insights, what, what have you learned?

What, what is the most interesting things that you found by doing this research? Yeah, good question. I guess at the beginning of the research, I had, I had just been, I just created a list. Like it was just a list and I put it to sleep for 2025. at the beginning of the year, you know, I got caught up as, as we all do, like you said, um, you know, life goes on.

There's so many, so many of them, like there's 89 podcasts that I was tracking. And, um, I think as I was coming to the end of the year and like into the start of this year, I started revisiting that data and I had just been like going back and saying, okay, so what podcasts are still there? You know, what podcasts actually exist and who are currently like releasing like. episodes, you know, and haven't died. And so I went through and I checked out each of those podcasts to see if they had been still releasing episodes into January of this year.

And I found something quite interesting because out of the 89 podcasts, 34 of those had ceased product or at least had stopped producing episodes into the new year. Yeah. So that was kind of like the number one key inside that I found. That's a huge number really.

Yeah. Yeah, it is. I was quite concerned. Um, as, as to why that would be.

Yeah. Okay. And so from, were there any patterns that you noticed within that? Like as an example, uh, you know, are the ones that fell off with a primarily like solo projects or were they, um, particularly sermon based or like, were there any like discernible patterns as to which ones fell off?

That's a really good Christian. You know, I hadn't, I hadn't really thought about that. I'd have to have a look at it to be honest. Yeah.

It might be something that'd be interesting as a follow-up. Yeah. Yeah. And the reason that I ask is that I, I definitely can see, well, I have some hypothesis, right?

So as, as a podcaster, I, you know, I run a couple of shows that this being one of them, this show is growing. Okay. Which is, which is great. I'm very grateful to the people that are listening to this.

Thank you so much for, you know, giving me your time to pay attention to what's on the show. But the other podcasts that I run, we have put many years of effort into, and yes, people still listen, but it has dropped considerably. And I've tried to give some thought as to why that would be, because I don't feel like the quality of the content has necessarily changed. I think there's something else that's going on in the dynamics of podcasting.

And this is a hot take, so I don't have any data to back this up like you do, but one of the things that I think it has happened, I think that as podcasting as a platform has matured, it has become much more difficult to attract an audience because now, rather than having, hypothetically, let's say 100,000 podcasts and there's a small percentage on all of these shows, Now there's big production companies, NPR, these really big organizations have come and they've created the equivalent of high production value shows. And so rather than a few people listening to all of the shows, it's like 90% of the people listening to 10% of the shows and then a spattering for the non-commercialized really high production value for the lower end of the audience. I think that's what's happened. that's anecdotal, but like I know for myself, if I'm going to listen to something, I do find it harder to want to listen to the smaller show when I know that there's, you know, really high, you know, high quality shows that are out there. So I think that may have something to do with it, but I'm, yeah, I'm curious.

I think, I think you're on the right track there. Um, what, what I found to be the case is that, um, there has has been not as much support for independent podcasters in our space. That could look like support on a local level or support on an institutional level for Adventist podcasts. And why there hasn't been, I feel like, is because the amount of communication that has been between both sides in this area hasn't been existing.

I mean, sure, there has been maybe conferences that have taken place. Maybe conversations have taken place in the church between leaders about podcasts. And, and that's probably why we see a lot of podcasts out there. And, and, um, and like, say for example, the South, Southeast Asia, I mean, South Asia podcast and, and, you know, there, there are podcasts out there that are in the institution that are, you know, um, being distributed to our church members. you know, in a whole, but I don't think it has been necessarily given the freedom or like the open source to, for, for the church members to be able to explore podcasts that are being produced by Avengers.

It hasn't been marketed that way. It's kind of just like a select, like if I, if I'm a conference, I just select, you know, the, the podcasts that I would listen to kind of thing. But if I don't say what you're saying, So if I'm understanding you correctly, what you're saying is that the institution has created podcasts, but it hasn't really, it's not necessarily creating them in alignment with the desires of the people who they want to approach, right? They're creating it, but it's very much like, oh, podcasting is interesting.

Let's create a podcast. And you're an employee who I think would do well. So create a podcast. not as much strategic direction, uh, behind it. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. Yeah. That's part of it. I think that it hasn't been able to break into the, the, um, the everyday lives of the, of the church members because of that, because we live in such a open ecosystem and of the internet.

Um, yeah, there hasn't been a platform where that could be like, we can't discover those podcasts except if you are involved in like the official communications lines of the conferences and things like that. Yeah. Well, I think what you just highlighted there is one of the really interesting things about podcasting in general. And that is that there's no discovery engine for podcasts, right?

Podcasting itself is an open standard that depends on a technology called RSS. And I love that it is that, but it does mean that it's really hard to find new things that you're going to like. You almost have to rely exclusively on uh, recommendations from, from friends. So one thing that I see a lot of, and I'd be interested in your thoughts, cause you know, you're the one that's done the research on this, but I, I would be interested in your thoughts.

There is a lot of people or a lot of podcasts out there. I remember, I don't know if this is still true, but I know up until a few years ago, at least it was true that the religion and spirituality section of the, of the, uh, whole podcasts ecosystem is the largest. And the reason for that is because so many churches just broadcast their sermons and stuff like that. So it's one of those set and forget kind of things.

What I'm curious about is of the podcasts that you indexed, what are some of the types of shows that are out there? Because I think one of the reasons that a lot of people don't listen to a church's podcast is because it's just the sermons. They already got the sermon on Sabbath, or if they wanted to get it, they would have done that already. people are wanting a different kind of format in the podcast world. So what are people doing and what is working?

Yeah, that's a, that's a really good question. And I think that there's a lot to be explored. Um, I w I was also just researching about, um, you know, religion and spirituality and that, and that section, it is one of the fastest, the top tiered, um, ranking and, and Apple podcasts right now. Um, it's just because how successful.

The church, I mean the church as a whole in the world has been able to create podcasts that is able to be nourishing for the spiritual members, for the spiritual life of the church members in their denominations or in their communities. You know, so for example, like one of those podcasts is the, like the daily devotional podcasts, right? Where you have like one Bible verse. per day that gets, gets released. Um, a good example of that is like the, um, um, it's, uh, the, the Psalms a day by they, that podcast, the Psalm than a day podcast is able to share one a day.

And so just the very nature of that type of, uh, podcast it's, it's, uh, going to be consumed a lot more easier than if it was just like, say a podcast that was, um, like a sermon podcast, like what you mentioned earlier. Yeah. No, that makes sense. So I think one of the things that I, I would assume would make a big difference if, if a church or an individual is wanting to make an impact with their podcast, there seems to be like the major formats, right?

Like, I mean, in the, there's either the Bible study or Bible teaching, like kind of describing, or, you know, even, even Yeah. Well, devotionals are a bit of a different category, but let's say there's that conversation aspect of it. So it's interviews or panel discussions. Like that's one format that happens.

Um, and you know, so then, and as you mentioned that the devotionals they happen, but I guess what I would suggest is that if you want to make an impact with a podcast in a market that's already flooded, You need to be providing something that they can't get somewhere else. Yeah, because it's so saturated right now. There are a lot of Christian programs out there for anyone to listen to. So yeah, you're right.

It does have to be specifically catering towards specific need. Yeah. Yeah. Well, just even in my own example, the podcast, my original podcast, the one I mentioned before, you know, that is a panel discussion.

And there are now, when we started, there wasn't that many. And so we did quite well. Now there's panel discussions on the Bible everywhere, right? It's something that is quite common.

And so really we probably need to be thinking about how do we change that. This discussion, this podcast, we know exactly who we're talking to. We're saying, you know, this is a podcast for Adventist leaders and administrators who care about technology. You know, that's it.

That's a very small number of people. And so the reason people listen to this show is because they know who they are and they know that this is important to them. Cause there's no one else that's having this conversation. And so I think as at the local church level, you should be thinking about that because a podcast is not only valuable if it has thousands of listeners all out there, you could be thinking about it purely in a local context.

Let's say you set up a podcast studio at your church and you say, well, I, we want to be shown as a positive voice for change in our community or like, you know, that we want to advocate for, for the people in our community. Reach out, talk, talk to your interview, your mayor, interview the, you know, the, the local counselors or your, your MPs or, you know, prominent leaders in the community from, you know, either the church or the nonprofit sectors or whatever it might be. But the, the, the thing that that does is that whilst the rest of the world may not care. The people that live around you will care.

And they're the people that you actually want to come to your church. Right. And the other beautiful thing is that if you have your, you know, mayor on the show, talking about what they're doing to improve the city or whatever it might be. That conversation makes the mayor look good.

Right. It makes the mayor, uh, you know, more, more known and gives them a platform. They share it. And then you, as a church. get to be the the one that is shown to be bringing your community together.

And you're doing it in a practical way. You're getting people together to dialogue about hard things. You know, you could make it not a debate, but you could have like a series of dialogues, get people from, you know, different areas that have different viewpoints and mediate, you know, get if you're very good at that, you know, that facilitation of discussion, get people to do that. But you what you're doing is you're creating something that a very small group of people who you are trying to serve care about.

Like, that's just one of the examples. But I think that if you give a lot of thought to how you can cut through the noise, then you stand a much better chance of having a podcast that people will actually listen to. Yeah, you're totally right. And just for the sake of your listeners, I did some research and I found out that I think it was 21 out of the current, you know, 64 podcasts that are currently being released. are all, um, sermon podcasts.

So they are just like, you know, you're, you're recording the sermon. You may chop off the beginning and you chop off a bit of the end, you know, after the prayer is finished. And then you, you post that onto the RSS feed or you post that onto Spotify or, you know, wherever you decide to distribute. And then it goes out like that.

Um, now what is the problem of just repurposing your audio? Well, Um, like I said in my, my most recent article, it's, it's like a passive strategy. It's, it's not an active, you're not actively going out and talking to people. Um, and you're not, you know, it's just a one way conversation.

It's just, and actually, is it a conversation? I wouldn't even call it a conversation. It's just the monologue, right? You're just hearing someone speak.

I mean, that was a good. It's a great thing to do, maybe, in the times of CDs, right? Because when you're using CDs as a medium, you can't have a conversation with a CD. You just put it on in your car, and you play, and you go to work.

But not so anymore, because we live in an age where people can actively choose what podcasts they want to listen to. All you need to do is go on Spotify and scroll through the hundreds of thousands of episodes that are being released daily. You know what I'm saying? What is stopping people from listening to your church's podcasts?

You know, what is stopping them from saying I want to listen to this church's podcast because I When I when I jump into some churches feed and I see that they're they're posting podcasts I also look onto someone else's feed and I'm saying oh, there's a 10-minute video about my favorite technology Maybe Jim and I AI just released a new feature or something like that. I want to learn about that, you know I'd much rather listen to a 10 minute video instruction video on Gemini AI than on your church's one hour sermon that just got posted last Saturday. You know what I'm saying? It's not accessible, right?

It's not. It's totally not accessible in this day and age. So I mean, there has to be some type of, you know, like repurposing, re-strategy that your church makes in the content that it, that it, that, you know, um, distributes. You know, like I, yeah, I don't know if you want to ask me another question before I start going.

I was going to follow up on that. I was just going to say, repurposing content is one thing, but I also understand that sometimes people do that because they don't have time to do anything else. And even though I know it is still extra time, what would be a way that a church could utilize something that has already been prepared that they could create a podcast around? Can you say that one more time?

What do you mean by actually being prepared? Well, as in like, as an example, the pastor has prepared the sermon already, right? You know, like how could that preparation be repurposed without it being just a recording of the sermon? Great Christian.

Um, I've seen some churches have like, like sermon wrap ups or sermon refreshes where they will come together. Maybe like an, a young adult in the church will interview the pastor and he will say, okay, pastor, so your sermon this Sabbath was on the Ark of the Covenant, you know what I mean? Like what, can you take us through like what you were thinking when you were writing that episode, you know, that sermon? And, you know, like right then you're coming at it with a dialogue, you have a host and you have a guest situation there.

So you're, you know, it's a different format than just publishing the sermon. That is one way to do it. Another way could even just be to share like 10 minute video clips of the sermon itself and break it up into smaller segments. Yeah.

Yeah, that's true. And even we've got the, I mean, yes, it's true that in our church, we already have a, um, you know, we have the Sabbath school lesson, but I think there's, and again, it's a very small market, right? But I feel like if my church pastor released like a daily thought on the lesson, I would be much more likely to listen to that rather than one of the global, um, you know, Sabbath school publications, because I have context with that person, right? So, um, yeah, it's, it's another way that, that, that people could leverage content that's already been created, but they're just packaging it in a new way that people can get behind.

I really liked that idea. Cause it saves you a lot of time. You know, you don't have to, um, since you've already written the content already. All you're doing is just going and having a conversation with someone about what you read.

It's, it's really not that difficult. Yes. Yeah. I often, cause you know, when I, when I preach, I often reflect on the fact that I really don't enjoy sermon preparation.

What I really enjoy is once I've prepared and it's all front of mind, and then I have the ability to let all, let it all out, you know, like it's like, Oh, this is like for me anyway. I know not everyone's the same. Some people are the opposite, but for me, The preparation is the hard thing. The delivery is easy because it's all front of mind.

I could preach a sermon and then I could sit down and I could do a Bible study with someone. Then I could record a podcast and I could be repurposing that same information for all of those things. But you're just utilizing it in different channels, in different ways. One of the other things that as we were talking just a moment ago, I'm just trying to track down, I had a thought and I'm just chasing it right now.

But another way that you could... uh, like utilize, um, utilize audio would be to have, uh, you could use it to tell the stories of your members as well, because every member has their own testimony, has their own story. And there's plenty of like, you know, testimony podcasts out there, but really mixes things up because you never know what you're going to get. Right. You know, if you you know talk to one person you know their story might be oh you know I've always loved the Lord I grew up in a home it was like this and then you get to hear the unique experience of someone who had to grow up in the church and never had the fresh experience and like how they managed that then you can talk to someone else and they'd be like oh man I was a drug dealer you know I met Jesus when I was 45 you know this is what my life has looked like ever since you know so yeah I think it's it's always a fresh supply if you're getting people's stories as well yeah and and also just to add to that Like isn't our programs kind of designed by like, you know, the church board or something like that.

We have, usually someone is the one who's designing that and usually communications director is the one who is, who's also in communication with them in order to repurpose the content itself. I mean, they're the ones who are going to be distributing it, right? What could be done, and this could be like for someone who's a communications director or someone of their church. Try to bring in to your strategy.

And you know what I'm saying? So have a, have a segment in your program where you, where you ask a member to sit down, right. And to share their testimony, you know, in front of the whole church, take a video of that. And then, or record that and then put that into your podcast.

So instead of, instead of publishing the sermon on your podcast feed, or maybe you want to. continue to publish your sermon, that's perfectly fine. But you can, you can publish the sermon and then publish the testimony as well, which would probably be more likely to be listened to than the sermon itself. Maybe someone does like to listen to the sermon at home and that's perfectly fine. Live streaming usually does that pretty well, right?

So, um, you can, you can approach it like that where you make it an internal strategy. to, to, to do that. So you're posting content regularly without even really having to like spend an hour in a studio after church recording an interview podcast. You know, it could just be built into your regular habits. Yeah.

I feel like there's another interest, another interesting thing and something that the church has historically shied away from. is influence a culture for better or worse, right? You know, like having a person who's the figurehead of something, you know, often we like the institution to be the face because then there's less risks, et cetera. I think that there is a shift in that. And like we've been talking a lot at the, at the local level, but I sort of want to take a little bit of a, like a step backwards and like look at the conference level.

I like the fact that I'm seeing some willingness to try to try to bring in people, real faces to be the face of things. And I know this has worked in the past, like for some of the larger ministries, you know, amazing facts. Doug bachelor has, has been leading that for a really long time. You know, Sean Boonstra was at voice of prophecy for many years that, you know, John Bradshaw, all of these people that were the face of a ministry and that tends to work very well, but these ministries are all, you know, external to the church.

But I, what I find interesting is that the church is now allowing Uh, pastors are even encouraging in some cases pastors to build those followings so they can be doing ministry, not just locally, but in, in that online footprint as well. Um, one that I want to highlight in particular, uh, uh, pastor Christian Cappuccino from, uh, Northeast South Wales conference. Uh, I, he is doing a podcast right now. It is flat out, it is the best example that I have seen. of a church produced podcast that I can't think of anything that I've seen that's better.

And I am really happy to see that. I have a lot of confidence in that approach. I think he's positioned himself really, really well. And I would love to see more of that happening with different demographics.

I think we should be consciously going after, okay, he's reaching, you know, he's, he's targeting young men, right? Like that's, that's the demographic that he's chasing, you know, and you can even see the styling is very similar to some of those podcasts, like, you know, like modern wisdom diary of a CEO, you know, that's the styling that he's kind of using for his message. Um, but we should be doing that for, you know, a whole bunch of different avatars. And I think that would be a really interesting approach for us to take.

That is a, that's a really good observation. Yeah. So, so what, um, what, what avenues do you specifically feel like people should go down and what ever does? Yeah.

Well, I, I think that we should be, we really, we should be covering them all, but I would start with the ones that are the, the most, the most in need and the most available, right? So the people who are chronically online are often going to be like health, young, young mothers suffering with health challenges. Yeah, sure. Like pick a specific interest category.

Um, but I was, I was going to say like, you know, young mothers, there's so, there's so many, you know, in the secular world, right. There's so many people that are serving that need. Where are we doing that in the church? And like, I know there's mums at the table.

We've got some brains that are on that, but like, you know, that's a big, that's a big segment. I think, um, you know, the gen gen Z like that. there are those of them that are in their twenties right now, especially on the younger end of, of, of Gen Z. I think they have, uh, there's so much content that's out there, but there is a huge communications gap between millennials and, and Gen Z. Uh, I, I've, you know, I, I know and love young people that are around me at church, you know, the youth that are there.

And I, I have conversations with them to figure out like what what they're watching, what are they consuming, what interests them and what the culture, the communication culture that that generation has is way different to what the millennials had. And like the difference between millennials and Gen X, no, it wasn't huge. There was this like blend from Gen X to millennials. And you can kind of see that, but the gap from the millennials to Gen Z, that's a huge gap.

And so I don't think that any, anybody who's not tailoring their message for Gen Z. I don't think they're going to be tapping anybody in that market. So yeah, I think we should be looking at all, at all verticals, but yeah, the ones that are the most chronically online, I would start. Yeah.

You know, um, I also try to get into the minds of the younger people in my church as well. It's quite fun sometimes to, to, to venture into their world and to understand just, just what they're thinking, you know, what do they consume and stuff like that. One of the things, as we get to the end of our discussion, one of the things that I'm curious about is based on what you've looked at, if you were going to, I know you've started several podcasts and you've edited for many across the course of time, but if you were to say, this is the kind of podcast that I would love to see more people making, What kind of show would you love to see more of? And I'm not, I mean, a lot of our conversation today has been limited to local church settings where there's limited resources, but I mean, like all holds barred, like just anything.

If you could say this is a type of podcast or more of this kind of thing that Adventists should be producing. What is the thing or a couple of things, depending on how you want to answer. That's such a high question. But, um, I know I love, I love asking things that there are no answers to.

There's no, there's no definite answers to that question, but just for myself personally, I don't know. I kind of feel like there could be some more content that has been produced, like interview podcasts or panel podcasts that are dealing with current issues in the world. I haven't seen any podcasts that have been produced that are looking at the current events of this, you know, that the news and things like that, that has been. created and just having a discussion about it. You know, I haven't, I haven't seen that.

Uh, another one would be like the daily devotionals for, for adults specifically, or even daily stories. Like just daily, daily storytelling has, has been done in our church for kids, but not for, um, adult. Yeah. That's, that's, that's something that I would like to see more of.

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, story is powerful, right? That's right.

Yeah. And I know, um, like one of the ways, I mean, cause there's different ways that those stories can be told. Um, one of the things that I think our church could learn from that I think would be very interesting is, uh, you know, there's other Christian organizations out there that I think do a great job of identifying gaps and, and, and filling them with interesting programming, you know, and, you know, Christianity today that they have, they have like a rolling batch of, uh, you know, podcasts that are interesting and I think generally well produced. And I think the ALC, the Adventist Learning Community, I think they're probably the only organization that I know of in Adventism that have sponsored shows in the same way.

And the shows that have come out of that, I think generally the ones that I'm aware of have been really positive. And so I would love to see more Adventist organization enabling that kind of production to happen. Because there's a million ideas that could be executed if there was just the backing for them. And also just, we have been talking with Creation Sabbath about creating a podcast for them.

They are under the creation science research, no sorry, the Geoscience Research Institute. They and Creation Sabbath and the GRI work together. You know, they're part of the creation and faith and science department in the general conference. And so we are collaborating with them to create a podcast for, you know, For creation Sabbath, which is a yearly event that happens in October And that is going to be held in the GC in the general conference studios So, I mean they they have the facilities available and it's not the church doesn't have the facilities available It's just that the initiatives I think are slowly coming up and maybe we will see that in the next year in 2026 hopefully by that by the same time next year I won't be saying 34 podcasts had stopped production.

Hopefully we'll say 34 more podcasts have, you know, been created this year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

So, um, just as we do wrap up, Khan, I'm going to like throw to you, like you can say anything that you would like to, to the audience, but, um, what I would encourage, if anybody out there is, is an Adventist who is running a podcast and we don't have them on our list. please, send us a message. You can go onto our website, send us a message. We would love to be able to add to our database because we're always looking to keep that up to date. And yeah, if there's anybody, especially if it's a church or even at conference or administration levels, if you would like to be more involved in podcasting as a medium, I would really recommend reaching out to have a conversation, especially with Khan.

It's something that we have experience with on our team and we would love to assist with if, if we can. So, uh, kind of, is there anything that you'd like to say or any way that people can get in touch with you if they would like to have a conversation about anything that has been on this show? Yeah. Um, I would like to say that we have a webpage available on blue vineyard.com.

We have all the, all the information there about our services. And then, um, you will also see on there that we have, we are. We have a resource, available free resource for podcast launch. You can learn, if you would like to learn how to start your own podcast, you can use that.

It's completely free. But yeah, if you would like to talk to me about, you know, even a consultation and to talk, to audit your podcast or to explore ways that you can, you know, maybe do things a bit differently, I'll be more than happy to. You can check, you can check out our website and my emails on there as well. If you do want to, if you, if you do want to reach out to me.

So, yeah. Excellent. All right. Well, thank you so much, Khan, for being on the show and thank you guys for listening.

We will be back with another episode soon. God bless.